Hi Craig. I have uploaded a transcript of the President's statement and attached it to this file as a pdf.

ME-----WE HAVE MILLIONS OF UNEMPLOYED AMERICANS--VETS---COLLEGE KIDS...DO WE NEED MORE IMMIGRANTS ?? NO. DO WE NEED MORE ILLEGALS WITH WORKING PERMITS ??? NO.....
WHAT IS WRONG WITH PUTTING AMERICANS FIRST ????

NO ONE HIRE ILLEGALS UNTIL ALL AMERICANS WHO WANT TO WORK CAN GET A JOB....THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE.

I KNOW AMERICANS WON'T DO FARM JOBS, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THOSE JOBS.

Hi Sharon. I have uploaded a transcript of the President's statement and attached it to this post as a pdf.

Ahhh, a new dictatorship is born!

Gee, what I see is people who don't respect us or our laws and get you and me to foot the bill. I not only don't care that they might be separated, I think they should be. Logical end to a illegal beginning.
I have watched my property taxes skyrocket to pay for their kids schooling and , no, I don't want to spend a nickel on them. I watch people who get affordable housing in Highland Park and then 5 families move in. It's right across the street from me. I paid full price to live here , everyone else should too.
Arizona and Alabama have the right idea and I wish Joe Arpaio was our Chief of Police.

ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL.

Michael: The affordable housing program in Highland Park has been so successful that it has been and is being used as a model for cities across the nation. You should consider yourself LUCKY to live in a community where everyone is given an equal opportunity to live, work, and play. Imagine if Highland Park didn't have these programs, and was selective in terms of who they would "let in". Actually, you don't have to imagine - look around us. There are quite a few communities on the North Shore that have the "not in my backyard" attitude.

Now, put yourself in these kids' shoes: they were brought over when they were babies, or at most, still very young. Then, as they grow into adults after working hard in the American education system, the same as you or I did, they're told "eh, we don't really care about you or the fact that you didn't have a choice in coming here... we're going to send you somewhere else." They didn't have a choice in the matter, and now we're telling them that we could care less.

So, Michael, let me say this. I've decided that I really don't care for people who don't have the same views as I do. I also don't care for people that have a personal supremacist view of themselves, that they're better than those around them. So, it is my opinion that we should deport these individuals from our communities to make them a better place. Michael, you'd be the first to go. I don't care where I send you, as long as you're out of my way. Now, how does that feel?

Bryce, in this issue conservatives don't care about children.

It's one the most stark hypocrisies of the current political system. Children deserve the unadulterated attention and protection of politicians until the moment they are born. At that point babies just need to pull themselves up by their baby bootstraps.

Is it hypocrisy? You bet. Is it unique to conservatives? Nope, this is just their most visible issue.

Louanne, it is the bypassing of congress that eventually leads to anarchy (I have a few examples from history to point to if you need examples). There is a reason for the separation of powers between the 3 branches of government. The same people saying at least something is now being done were complaining when the previous President tried taking matters into his own hands via executive order. As for the issue in question, if we as a nation are to allow immigrants to bypass the rule of law... then eventually we will be surrounded by people who think they can do whatever they want despite the rules in place. As a legal immigrant, I am tired of having to pay for the wishes of others (who also don't budget for those wishes).... and I am tired of some people getting a free pass when others worked very hard and jumped through many hoops in order to gain the right to be in this country and be contributing members of society.

That's pretty much what it comes down to, common sense about a problem. Congress has done little more than given lip service for or against dealing with undocumented people, mostly because Congress has a hard time telling the "common sense" truth, i.e. can you really punish someone who was brought here as a kid?

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2011/09/obama_on_dream_act_cant_just_c.html
(September 28, 2011)
Obama on the DREAM Act: "I just have to continue to say this notion that somehow I can just change the laws unilaterally is just not true. We are doing everything we can administratively. But the fact of the matter is there are laws on the books that I have to enforce. And I think there's been a great disservice done to the cause of getting the DREAM Act passed and getting comprehensive immigration passed by perpetrating the notion that somehow, by myself, I can go and do these things. It's just not true."

Michael: fell free to move ASAP! I don't believe anyone will stop you. go where your heart is!

IS CONGRESS JOB...AGAIN OBAMA IS LOOKING TO GET THE HISPANICS OUT TO VOTE FOR HIM.. ANYTHING FOR THEIR VOTES....AMNESTY---THE DREAM ACT.

WHAT IS NEXT ???? SPANISH OVER ENGLISH ???
OPEN BORDERS ??????

Jose, can I just ask - did you, your parents, or grandparents immigrate to the United States? If so, why do you feel that you are "better" than any of the other immigrants now? I see around me a large group of people who have decided that all Mexican and Latin American immigrants are illegal. Guilty until proven innocent. How would you, if you were a Hispanic immigrant, like me to apply that status to you? I don't care if you've been here since birth, you're going to get lumped together. Of course, because Obama's goal is just to get the Hispanic vote, you get to stay. But if you want Romney, I will not have sympathy for you when the law requires a police officer to stop you simply because you look like you could be illegal?

Daniel,

EXACTLY!!!!! Good form.

He is not making a declaration or creating law, he is using executive discretion because Congress dances around immigration issues to work people into a frenzy. Similar policy statement are made by past presidents. Also, he is not making law, he is taking a step to begin a process toward getting people out of the shadows and becoming "documented".

Correct! Children should not be punished for their parents illegal acts. That is UN-Americana. Send their parents back if you must, but they deserve a chance to become Americans.

BRYCE ROBERTSON-----YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT...WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS, BUT WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE ??? WE HAVE MILLIONS OF AMERICANS UNEMPLOYED..VETS CAN'T FIND A JOB......IS TIME TO DRAW THE LINE AND AY NO MORE IMMIGRANTS AND NO MORE ILLEGALS....

ON TOP OF ALL THAT, JOBS ARE BEING OUTSOURCE TO CHINA, ANOTHER REASON TO DRAW THE LINE AND SAY NO MORE IMMIGRANTS---NO MORE ILLEGALS....WE DON'T NEED THEM..NO MAS

Folks you miss my point.I don't hate these people. I was brought up to think if you don't like the law change it. But until you do you live with the law as it is. On the housing issue, to me it is simply a money issue. You can't pay , you don't get. That's is how it always worked for me. How do I get to be special too? I could use the help.

Jose, I am not missing the point. You are. See my reply below to another commenter regarding this job situation. At least where I live, there are PLENTY of available jobs, but not enough people willing to take them. They see these jobs as beneath them. I have an acquaintance of mine who once worked in real estate, and now is driving a taxicab in order to make ends meet. Find me others who would be willing to do this? Chicago always could use more cab drivers. There are always openings. The reason jobs are being outsourced is the same reason - Americans demand higher pay, better benefits, etc... to do the same jobs as those in China or India. Many companies are faced with such rising costs that outsourcing is the only way to stay afloat - and save thousands of other American jobs.

Now, Michael, here's a scenario we face in Highland Park all the time. Someone (an American CITIZEN) loses their house because they borrowed too much, couldn't afford it, didn't plan, lost their job, etc... We don't blame them. Their house sits for years, without being kept up, and becomes a blight on the neighborhood. An affordable housing group snatches it up, repairs it, and gives it to a deserving, hard-working family needing the assistance. These are NEVER illegal immigrants, but always American citizens who need help. If you're in that situation, I'd encourage you to apply. But otherwise, let us help those who truly need it and maybe offer a helping hand yourself.

Bryce
Where our affordable housinG is concerned you simply don't know whaT you are talking about. I spoke with the city, you obviously did not. About what I would expect from a high school kid who never paid a mortgage. I imagine you live east of st. Johns as well. How much affordable housing sits across the street from your house? None I bet. Easy to be pro something when you don't deal with it. Come back and talk to me when you are old enough to drink.

Michael - age has nothing to do with this, first off. I'm not sure what you mean by the fact that you've spoken with the city. What exactly did you talk about? I have been deeply involved with our affordable housing program (called Community Partners for Affordable Housing) for nearly two years now. While I have no affordable housing directly on my street, there are a number of city-provided units built several years ago two blocks from my house, and a CPAH rental structure less than a mile away. I've seen several people lose their houses around us due to a variety of reasons, some their own fault and some the fault of their situation (lost their job, couldn't pay their mortgage).

I invite you to apply to be a part of our next service day so you can see what affordable housing really is about in Highland Park. You can sign up for the eBlast on CPAH's website at www.cpahousing.org.

For the record - I do manage my own credit, could apply for a mortgage if I so chose, and if approved by the bank, then purchase a house. However, regardless of if I was approved or not, that would not be fiscally prudent, thus why I would not take advantage of the offer. So, next time, before you criticize someone yet again without knowing their situation, maybe just stick to the facts that you can argue. I haven't seen any of them presented so far.

I'd just like to add this from this month's Highlander for those who might be in need of affordable housing in our community:

Community Partners for Affordable Housing (CPAH) is a not-for-proift organization that provides affordable housing to low and moderate income households that live or work in the area. The program helps to bridge the gap between the cost of local housing and the incomes of people who live or work in the community. Homes are sold
to income qualified households at 40-60% below market value. To qualify, a household of four may not have income exceeding $60,000. To learn if affordable housing might be right for you, please attend an information session on Tuesday, June 19, at 7:00 p.m. or Saturday, July 21, at 10:00 am. Information sessions are held at 400 Central Avenue, Suite 111. To register or for more information, please contact Amy Kaufman at (847) 681-8746/akaufman@cpahousing.org. More information is also available at www.cpahousing.org.

He has not done the right thing. He has done the "political" thing (and chose this moment in time to do so to get out the Hispanic vote). If he felt to strongly 3 years ago, he should have done this then (however, at that time, he indicated he didn't have a way to do it when he commented n the Dream Act at that time). Others in this comment section have already pointed this out. Why should the law abiding citizens and legal resident aliens have to foot the bill for the law breaking of these children's parents?

@Kathy - under the play put forth by Rubio, they would have had a chance. Obama just didn't want that plan coming forward, so he just short-circuited the law. Now, instead of FOLLOWING a law on a path towards citizenship, Obama just said that illegal immigrants don't have to follow the laws.

Lucy Norman Once they become adults at the age of 18 they should do everything to become a citizen. But most of them just want to live off of the taxpayers without giving back,because Americans get messed over by our own government.

Patty, I agree. "LIfe is Good's" comment is totally wrong. I have yet to see any of the kids in my neighborhood take on lesser jobs. They have been groomed by their parents AND society to "want the best" and assume the top position. Besides, YOU do not pay the illegal alien. You pay the lawn care company. It's not up to YOU to decide who is illegal working for you: it's that company's problem.

These kids are wanting to BE in America and that's all they've known. They are willing to do better, like the young, Asian man who recently got his doctoral degree at 21, the YOUNGEST scholar. And the young lady who was thrown in JAIL because she missed too many days of school, with an A average and working jobs to support her siblings because the parents are gone.

It is stunning, how naive some Americans are as to the "big picture"..........

Gee, a sensible, reasoned comment. Imagine that.

NO truer words, Matt.

Bonia, regarding your comments, very well thought out and articultated. As for your last sentence, this immigrant DOES feel that my effort at doing the right thing is being betrayed by my fellow countrymen in their effort to pander for votes.......

"stymied by an intransigent Congress"

He had 60+ votes in the Senate and a majority in the House his first two years and used that advantage to pass Obamacare while ignoring immigration reform and the economy. He and the Democratic leadership knew they were sacrificing some of their members since a majority of Americans didn't want Obamacare. As Nancy Pelosi said at the time, they had to pass Obamacare even if 90% of American's were satisfied with their medical care. When you don't listen to the people in one area, you lose them in others, even if those areas are valid and important. She said they had to pass it so we could see what was in it. She meant they had to pass it BEFORE we could see what was in it.

Yes, let's just do away with Congress altogether. The President should be able to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants to do it. Another man had that power-Saddam Hussein- and looked how that turned out.

AMERICANS OPPOSE AMNESTY---AND THE DREAM ACT....ARE REPUBLICANS SUPPOSE TO GIVE OBAMA HIS WAY ?? NO WAY IN HELL.
DEMOCRATS ARE SUPPOSE TO BE DEPORTING THE ILLEGALS..

OBAMA IS DEAD WRONG.. ILLEGALS AHEAD OF UNEMPLOYED VETS ?? OBAMA IS DEAD WRONG. POLITICS TO GET THE HISPANIC VOTES.

Daniel Krudop, excellent articulation of the facts........

right

Word!!!

The job thing is ridiculous. When Arizona tried farming without illegals - no Americans jumped in a things died on the vine. Let's get a truck and you and I will head to Georgia in over a 100 degree weather and hand pick vegetables.., Oh, wait, I have a much better job. Let's just send you !

Nancy:
Do those who agree so passionately with Obama's action not realize that all who have been given amnesty can now sponsor their relatives to come and join them in the U.S.?"

Show me WHERE that is written. Stop running around screaming "The Sky is falling! The sky is falling!! Where were YOU when the Republicans drove this coubntry into a recession therir last 8-10 years in office?

Actually, they CAN'T sponsor relatives. They are only being given work visas, that expire in 2 years, but can be renewed if they stay out of trouble and have jobs. A work visa does not entitle someone to sponsor family members. I am no fan of illegal aliens, but if this law means they can start cracking down harder on the illegals who do not fit this profile, along with the gang members and drug runners, the parents of these kids who deliberately broke the law, all the high school dropouts, and the ones driving without license or insurance, I will accept the trade off.

wecome to you too.

This legal immigrant is certainly pretty upset......

While I agree with the sentiment that this was not a good way to do this, it does not make him a dictator. Congress can still act! Veterans mean that are still alive. To our soldiers who have died, they dies for our Freedom. This does not take away our freedom. try again. And yes, I know the loss of a close young man who died for his country.

CORPORATIONS AND BUSINESSES WANT CHEAP SLAVE LABOR...ILLEGALS WILL WORK FOR $ 5 AN HOUR IF YOU PAYING THEM UNDER THE TABLE IN CASH....BUSINESSES DO NOT HAVE TO PAY THEM ANY BENEFITS..

HERE IS WHAT MAKE ME SICK..WHEN AN ILLEGAL IS INJURED ON THE JOB---HAVE A BABY, WHO PAYS FOR THEIR MEDICAL BILLS ???? THE BUSINESS THAT THEY WORK FOR ??? THE TAX PAYERS ??? ANSWER , THE TAX PAYERS DO. NOT FAIR AT ALL..BUSINESSES ARE GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER. MANY ILLEGALS ARE PAY IN CASH, NO INSURANCE--NO SOCIAL SECURITY AND NO TAXES ..A WIN--WIN--WIN FOR BUSINESSES. TIME TO END THAT.

cherie... I am currently seeking a full time (50hrs) maid/launderess/cook. In Deerfield...
look for my ad on craigslist. I will look for your response to ad.

Cherie: I would like to point out that a variety of businesses in downtown Highland Park have openings: Once Upon a Bagel for waitstaff, Lake City Car Wash for men to operate the hoses, and many more. Take a look around. There are jobs available - but nobody applying for them.

Cherie, my point.. thank you.
Hire the vets before hiring any illegals.
hire the Americans citizens before the illegals... Anything wrong with that ???

OH YES!! Here's a man (Raymond) who speaks truth! AMEN!

The jobs these illegal immigrant kids are going to be competing for are the same jobs that LEGAL American kids are going to compete for.

This was a purely political ploy and will backfire.. Obama thought he had the youth vote cornered.. he did, as most people are liberal until they get out on their own. However, when they realize that Obama just made finding a job a lot tougher, they might not vote for the Republican...they might just stay home.

BUSINESSES SHOULD STOPPED SUPPORTING THE ILLEGALS, WHY THEY ARE NOT BEING DEPORTED...ALSO BUSINESS ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO LOVE ILLEGALS. SHAME ON YOU ALL...
ANYONE WHO HIRE ILLEGALS IS ANTI--AMERICA-----ANTI--AMERICAN WORKERS..
I WANT JAIL TIME FOR ANYONE WHO HIRE ILLEGALS....ILLEGALS ARE CRIMINALS AND THOSE WHO HIRE THEM ARE ALSO CRIMINALS THAT SHOULD BE PUT IN JAIL.

@Anyone who thinks I am kidding, I have applied for many jobs that are low paying and entry level. I am not lazy nor a hypocrite. Oh yeah, and I don't consider myself privileged either.

Raymond Prusak a business owner ???? must be to feel that way. get rid of the illegals and wages will have to go up.

And one who needs to stop using CAPS. You are "shouting," sir. Marines don't SHOUT - they act responsibly. Sheesh.

uh, Malibu Bob. i know you are just trying to be clever, but the Marines i know do shout.

MALIBU BOB, GO HAVE ANOTHER BEER...OUR COUNTRY IS IN SERIOUS TROUBLE.

Jose, why do you only type in capitals? It's annoying and does not get your point across any better, quicker or louder.

Jose, one of the solutions is absolutely for employers to be held accountable. Lets start with those HUGE agribusiness who employee lots if illegal immigrants. so, how do we start holding them accountable. I will voe on legislation that does that!

Kathy, take a look at some of the states who have dealt with the issue more forcefully than others (Arizona, Alabama to name two). They both have large agricultural businesses with migrant workers, a number of whom are illegal. When these workers were being prevented from coming over to work, or harassed, or stopped coming IN FEAR even though they were LEGAL, business tanked. And the American citizens who stood on their soapboxes saying that any Hispanic must be illegal and must be detained - did they step in and take the jobs? Nope. They didn't. They were too good for jobs working 15 hours a day in the fields. And then people realized that maybe it wasn't such a good idea to turn everyone away.

Joe, I am a legal immigrant and verteran (having served in the US Marine Corps), so thank you for your service.... and also for your opinion.

Semper Fi.

Boo hoo.

Richard, agreed.

Sandra, "Boo Hoo"? How about the playing field being levelled in the halls of congress so both parties contribute to the legislative process........ a thought.

yes, you're right. and this will backfire on him..

Well, you see, the one good thing here is that if they are given work visas, they will no longer be working under the table. They will actually have to compete with citizens for jobs. This is not good news for the businesses that use illegals to save money, pay less than min wage, and if they get hurt they just disappear. Now these particular kids will be legal workers, with legal wages and benefits. They won't be undercutting Americans anymore. That is not a bad thing. And if they can't find a job, their visa will be revoked.

Tanya 800,000 ??? i bet you is a lot more. How can Obama say is good for America ???? No is not,
Ask unemployed vets if is good for America ???
Ask the millions of unemployed Americans if is good for America, ??

Sandra, when the work visa is revoked, and they don't leave..... (and why should they, they came here illegally and do not recognize the rule of law), what will be your argument then?

Imagine that, a politician being "political"/ Sort of like when Bush Cheney ran in 04 on a platform of passing an anti-gay marriage amendment. That they knew was never going to pass in a zillion years. And that personally insulted Cheney's own daughter. But it worked. The bigoted "christian" rightwing base came out and voted. And now of course, Cheney supports gay marriage, due to his daughter. But that wasn't political at all, was it? Republicans NEVER do anything "just for politics", right?

Sandra, blanket statements to fit your arguments do not make such things so. When it comes to politics, both parties are guilty of pandering to their constituents. But the thing is, Democrats used to be like Moynahan and Lieberman (men of principle), but many are now acting like the Democrats of old (Dixiecrats came from one party, and it wasn't the Republican Party). The politics of race and demonization are still practiced by the Democratic Party... (Star Parker, an african american conservative who used to be on Welfare, speaks to this in great detail).

The key question here is are we a nation ruled by law or a nation ruled by man?

Constitutionally, (which is the legal basis upon which our Republic rests), the basis of our society is the rule of law.

Unfortunately, as in many cases, the debate gets sidetracked by questions like the one posed by liliana fargo. In this case, it is not the government that is "punishing" it is the government that is responsible to the entire citizenry for enforcing the law.

If "blame" is to be assessed for any hardship visited upon these children, it is to be laid at the feet of the adults who violated U.S. sovereignty by bringing themselves and their children here illegally.

Those who argue for "democracy" rather than a "Republic" would do well to remember that a democracy is rule by 50% plus 1... the rule of the majority and not the rule of law. Minorities of any stripe, (physically or mentally challenged; gay, lesbian or transgendered; religious sects or ethnic groups), lose their voice and protections under a democracy. It is the old story of "be careful what you ask for".

Illegal is Illegal..
why punish American vets who can't find a job by giving 800,000 illegals work permits ??????Our Vets should come first.

ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL.
WE HAVE MILLIONS OF UNEMPLOYED AMERICANS...WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICANS FIRST ??????

HIRING ILLEGALS WHEN WE HAVE MILLIONS OF UNEMPLOYED AMERICANS INCLUDING VETS IS A CRIME. CRIMINAL.

ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL..THE LAWS SAY DEPORT THEM.

Why is the military accepting illegal aliens to fight? Maybe, they need mnore soldiers??

Kathy, where are you getting your information that illegal migrants are being accepted by the US Military?

Hmmmm, imagine that-a Crook County Democrat complaining about one-sided coverage. Democrats have controlled Crook County for well over 50 years and now we get Crook County Democrats complaining about fairness of coverage on Patch.

When a Republican banner gets put up on City Hall in Chicago and Republicans lead the St. Patrick's Day parade in Chicago, then you can complain about unfair coverage on Patch.

Ole Rich, the savior of society. Have you registered to vote yet down there in Florida? Otherwise,I'll be canceling every vote you make up here. How's that secession project going for you? Or the story you told where you wrap yourself up in the Confederate Flag, or when you justify pointing a loaded pistol at a 4 year old as "protecting property". You're a great spokesperson for liberty in this nation of immigrants. Ha. Keep making these insanely partisan comments and you may just sway more than Independents toward the sensibility and stability of democracy. Hopefully, we will keep democracy from the clutches of the right wing. Funny how "freedom" is always your personal freedom but no one else's.

Impeached? All these concealed carry folks, self policing their way into Disney World with guns to protect themselves. On the wrong side of this issue too. Imagine that.

Which part of the Constitution has he violated? I don't seem to recall immigration being listed in Article 1, Article 2, or any of the amendments.

To Bucephalus;
Article 1, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution:
All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
Section 1 paragraph 4:
Section. 8 paragraph 4:
The Congress shall have Power ...
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization...
Section 8 paragraph 18:
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

There it is, so simple even a cave-man could understand it.

Legislative powers = law making

its a national security threat. economically and enviromentally and fundamentally.
Also, it will likely just encourage more people to come here and mooch ....

Except that we're not talking about naturalization. We're talking about immigration controls, something that didn't exist in 1787. You might believe that this is the first step towards "amnesty" or a "pathway to citizenship," but beliefs don't equal reality.

To say that naturalization rules are the same as immigration rules is to apply a very loose interpretation to the Constitution.

To Bucephalus:
It might be a good idea to understand some basic facts.
1) In general, basic requirements for naturalization are that the applicant hold a legal status as a full-time resident for a minimum period of time and that the applicant promise to obey and uphold that country's laws, to which an oath or pledge of allegiance is sometimes added.
2) The Constitution also mentions "natural born citizen". The first naturalization Act (drafted by Thomas Jefferson) used the phrases "natural born" and "native born" interchangeably.

3) An illegal immigrant in the United States is a (non-citizen) who has entered the United States without government permission and in violation of United States Nationality Law, or stayed beyond the termination date of a visa, also in violation of the law.
Section 1325 in Title 8 of the United States Code, "Improper entry of alien", provides for a fine, imprisonment, or both for any immigrant who: enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration agents, or eludes examination or inspection by immigration agents, or attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact. The maximum prison term is 6 months for the first offense and 2 years for any subsequent offense. In addition to the above criminal fines and penalties, civil fines may also be imposed.

It IS a criminal offense.

1: Now we're talking about the US Code, not the US Constitution. Even if Obama was outright violating the US Code, and he has not illegally entered the country, violating the US Code is not "unconstitutional." Terms have specific meaning.

2: With regards to children and the US Code, the criminal justice system recognizes culpability and responsibility in crimes. People who are not criminally responsible, and most states recognize a bare minimum age of ten years old to be responsible, cannot be guilty of a crime. So if a kid was brought by their parents when they were under 10 years old, no state in the US would hold them criminally responsible.

To Bucephalus;
It seems that either you are purposely being disingenuous.
From the Constitutional standpoint POTUS has usurped the legislative power given to Congress in Article 1 Section 1. It is the job of his administration to EXECUTE the laws, not make them.
From the standpoint of the US Code, THAT is the job that the POTUS and his administration, (through Atty Gen Eric Holder) are failing to do.
Regarding the "children" argument, the rule of law states that the parent is responsible for the child. If, in fact, the parent has violated the law, then, it is up to the government to place the child with responsible caretakers, preferably relatives. If, in fact, there are no relatives legally in the US to care for said children, they should be deported to their home country where they do have relatives.

There is a considerable body of legal precedent for this type of action.

POTUS needs to enforce the current valid US law, not make it up as he goes along.

Grandpa, excellent points that you bring up. As for the "constitutional professor", he certainly seems to disregard said constitution when it suits him.

Kathy, that a ridiculous statement. Black Pathers? Your bigotry is showing. That's the true issue with so many people that can't get over a black man being elected President. Well, he did. Welcome to the 21st century.

Just like Romney pays his fair share of taxes?

Kathy, thanks for confirming your bigotry!

@Nick: and RB. The issue with Potus is not his race. It is his actions. I had many of the same issues regarding Jimmy Carter. Can you get past the use of the term "Bigotry" for a moment and explain where she is incorrect (in any kind of detail)?

Puerto Rico is part of the United States, so its residents are US citizens.

Except that we're not talking about naturalization. We're talking about immigration controls, something that didn't exist in 1787. You might believe that this is the first step towards "amnesty" or a "pathway to citizenship," but beliefs don't equal reality.

To say that naturalization rules are the same as immigration rules is to apply a very loose interpretation to the Constitution.

Punctuation can be a very useful too, FYI.

Buce: Was that really nessesary? As if you're better than me because you use punctuation? I can use punctuation too FYI. We have that in common.

These streams are just an outlet for people to behave immaturely and be disrespectful to their neighbors. Nobody is sharing their opinion respectfully, or sharing ideas with each other. It's pathetic.

Lyn, our country is in serious trouble, we need to wake up fast.

What category are you listing under?

Life...It is wholly my prerogative to place blind ads in attempt to protect my personal information from lunatics...such as yourself. I pay a fair wage (plus bonuses) to those I choose to employ regardless of their nationality, disability or governmental status. You will find no prejudice here. Life is apparently not so good for you Life. Perhaps a different moniker would be more appropriate. Please go grind your ax elsewhere.

Cherie... the category is either household or domestic...I can not recall at this moment. Please send your current resume and 3 work related references. See ad for specifics. I am conducting interviews this week. I will do criminal background checks...please do not waste my time if you have ever been arrested...for anything. Will look for your resume.

J.Lyn, I couldn't find your ad. Maybe you could copy and past the verbiage here so we can find it easier. I even did s general search in domestic for Deerfield.

Donna M... Don't know why you are having difficulty. I have had 27 respondants in the last 10 days. One can only respond to the ad at Craigslist using blind forwarding address.

Found it I was looking with the info you gave for Deerfield

Private family in Chicago seeking a full-time live-in OR live-out housekeeper/cook for their large family. Housekeeper will be responsible for the daily maintenance of the home, as well as help.ing to prepare and cook light meals for the family. Daily tasks include but are not limited to:
Daily cleaning of the home
Preparing/cooking meals--being an overall help in the kitchen
Organizing the home
Laundry, ironing, and wardrobe maintenance
Light household maintenance
Household errands and grocery shopping
Traveling with the family to their vacation homes
Ideal candidate must have previous experience working in a private home, and excellent references. Family has multiple homes, so candidate MUST be willing to travel. Housekeeper will work Thursday-Monday at family's vacation home 2 hours away during summer. Must have valid driver's license and ideally have own car though not a deal breaker. Candidate will work 40-50 hours a week, with flexibility to work nights and weekends. Candidate will have separate bedroom/bathroom/living area in the home. MUST be pet friendly, both cats and dogs, and comfortable working in a household with children as well (school-aged). Salary $20-22/hour. Start date mid to late summer.

"Do we have separate laws that govern children verse adults."

Yes, as a matter of fact we do. We also have a separate criminal justice system for children. It's called juvenile court.

The United States, by order of Congress, does not have an official language. States are free to declare an official language, but there are federal laws regulating and requiring that documentation be printed in several languages (including ballots, laws, legal orders) when there are enough people to meet a demand for that language. This includes Spanish, German, Polish, French, Hawaiian, Swahili, Afrikaans, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and many other languages.

I'm also not sure what countries you go to, but off the top of my head, I do recall seeing signs in English in Denmark, France, and Mexico even though English is far from an official language. They also provide English signs in the upper regions of Scotland where Gaelic is the officially recognized language.

Now, unless your ancestors were English (as in from England) or came over on the Mayflower, English would not have been their original language. My ancestors came from Germany, Hungary, Russia, Poland, and other non-English speaking countries, and a number of them did NOT speak English until learning it in the US.

Lastly, to address an early point: if you are 30 and came to this country when you were a teenager, the new work permit rules do NOT apply. It's for under 30 and only for a two year work permit to get things in order. AND they have to be current students, high school grads, or served and protected our country in the military - which if they did, isn't this a nice thank you?

Bryce,

"The protected language groups according to interpretation of the 2006 Reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act are Asian (Chinese, Hindi, Japanese, Tagalog, etc), Native American and Native Alaskan dialects (not of European origin) and Latino races. The Census Bureau does not consider Arabic an Asian language. Also languages of European origin such as Russian, Polish and Hebrew are not deemed covered languages."

(http://countyclerk.lakecountyil.gov/Pages/News-Stories.aspx#Spanish)

That means an area could be 45% English speaking, 50% Polish speaking, and 5% Spanish speaking and the ballots, by law, would be required to be printed in English and Spanish, but not in Polish.

Daniel and all - apologies for the misstatement and thank you for the clarification. My point still stands that the US recognizes that its citizens speak languages other than English. As I don't live in a primarily Polish (or other nationality) area, I'm not sure if one could get a Polish ballot. However, in the City of Chicago, it would not surprise me to see much city documentation and forms available in Polish.

Sandra, first let me say this. I'm here to have a civil discussion without immature name calling. So, I don't plan to respond to you any further if you can't manage that. I am a child of this era - an era plagued with illegal immigration issues. Am I suggesting we let everyone who came here illegally slide and give them amnesty? Not a chance. There are a large percentage of these people who DO commit crimes - and are dealt with accordingly. Obama has by far the best track record of this so far. I'm not sure what people you know, but the immigrants that I know, illegal or not, do their best to work as good members of the community. They either contribute, or don't, but they don't detract. I do not take kindly to your comment about their "disgusting" culture - so what if that's what some people do? There are plenty of Americans who have what I would consider disgusting habits, and some who do much worse things than disposing of their toilet paper in a different manner. However, that does not make them any less human. The "Mexicans" (I assume you mean any illegal immigrant here) do NOT get free college education either if they are illegal - in order to qualify for Federal Aid, you must provide a valid social security number, which illegal immigrants cannot obtain. Frankly, I'd say be happy that you had enough success to not qualify for complete aid.

Lastly, I'll say this: YOU go to Mexico, and live how these people had to live. I'd make bets you wouldn't make it out alive.

If one illegally enters Mexico, they are put in jail for 2 years and are then deported.

# 1 Illegals should not be allow to serve in the military. I do not know who came up with that stupid idea.

David Plouffe, who is running the Obama campaign? Hanging out with Republicans in Congress? And informing us of some top secret master plan of Republicans that he and only he has insider information about?

LOL!

It is a crime not to have proper identification on your person, according to the law. So why is there a major issue when it comes to providing an ID to vote. If you notice the politicans that are sponsoring the "no ID required to vote laws" come from where??? Why is citizenship not a question when entering the military or applying for a job. All benefits are for our citizens, not outsiders. But if it means an extra vote or 10 for the job, some politicans will do whatever it takes to get that vote.

Illegals can't vote, but they are taking jobs that used to pay good wages ..Jobs that vets and Americans could have. And I'm not talking fruit picking jobs.

Elie, read the news....don't make it up. He has not promised work permits for everyone. Unemployment and workers compensation trouble you? The employers pay for it! If they hire someone they pay UE and WC on the employee. I know, I've done it for years.

Ellie, where did he give them the right to vote? I seem to have missed that in his announcement. You may define "citzenship" as "ability to work in this country." I, however, would rather stick to the Constitution's definition of a citizen, along with the rights and responsibilities therein.

My last comment for the night - yep, they pay into Social Security, but don't get a darned thing out of it. That's right - they're actually paying taxes without receiving benefits. Same thing with Medicare. They won't qualify for government welfare if the program requires a social security number.

Many people would prefer an Act, but you can't get anything through the Republican controlled house. They even want the economy to fail in hopes of getting the White House. Mr. Obama made the compassionate move. Something the right wing finds horrible, I'm sure. He has the authority to do it too.

Palatine: Agreed. :)

Agreed.

Jose: "I know i been posting a lot is my serious concern about the direction our country is going... "

Jose, all is going according to plan. The plan is to sink America. Guys like you are standing in the way.

My name is on my posts. I am a former resident of Evanston who voted with his feet and moved to "redneck" Florida to get away from the progressive kooks who live in Evanston. (The state income tax rate in Florida is 0 percent and the roads are in perfect condition.)

Governor Walker's win in the Wisconsin recall election is the hand-writing on the wall-a landslide Republican victory in the 2012 election. The next step in the landslide is the Supreme Court decision to overturn Obamacare. Romney will be our next president and the Republicans will take the US Senate (including Senator Brown holding Senator Kennedy's former seat). It's my opinion that Governor Romney will take both Wisconsin and Illinois.

The TEA party produced a landslide Republican victory up and down the ballot in 2010 and the TEA party will produce another landslide in 2012. Sorry, Dems, but if you couldn't beat Governor Walker in Wisconsin in two tries, it's all over for you people.

Smile Mr. Prusak, you'll get another chance in 30 years after Americans forget about the mess President Obama made of America. We're taking our country back with the help of people like Jose.

Jose, thank you for your military service and thank you for speaking out for America on this thread.

Why don't you vote with your fingers and go spew your garbage on a Florida message board, gasbag? No one here cares what you think. Get lost.

Sandra Sims is such a positive person. She must be a delightful person to be around, except, of course, after the drubbing Governor Walker gave the Democrats in Wisconsin. Get used to it Ms. Sims-the Dems are in for more drubbings this election year.

For real "Hope and Change": Anybody but Obama.

Keep trying to push those buttons, gasbag. Still not succeeding. Just making yourself look daily more unbalanced. No wonder you can't find work anywhere. Do you not realize that potential employers will google your name? No one would hire a psycho like you. Keep going, I enjoy watching you self destruct, it, unlike you, is pretty darn funny!

Wow..... just wow.

It's kind of funny how you misspell America.

Buc, Mr. Prusak's comments are typical of the left when leftists take off their "masks".

Remember, it was Democrats who supported slavery in the 1850's, started the Klu Klux Klan in the 1860's and developed Jim Crow after Reconstruction. The leopard never changes its spots-Democrats are still involved in their "hate" today using the public school systems in large cities to keep black folks on the Democrat plantation.

The hateful rhetoric that Mr. Prusak spews is what you all actually think. With the history just cited, it's amusing when Mr. Prusak calls us "haters".

Keep up the hateful rhetoric Mr. Prusak.

I would think he is used to being around like minded individuals (based on the comments I've seen thus far). I am happy to be proven wrong however, ;)

Yes, we can tell how open-minded you are by your posts.

Conservatives believe in judging people by the content of their characters and not by the color of their skin.

Sorry, Mr. Prusak, but calling me a racist doesn't really bother me-you know nothing about me. You make yourself look foolish with your name-calling.

Open Mindedness includes being open to discussion with ideological rivals.

LoL...you are right on... again...thanx for the early morning laugh.

Raymond, my name is real, I am a Huntley resident, and I will be happy to debate the subject on its merits.

Republicans and neo cons are human beings also (just as Liberals, Socialist, Marxists, Conservatives, Nazis are also human beings). Demonizing serves only one purpose (and that is to hurt one's arguments in a sea of venom).

I'm sure you're right about not agreeing. At least we do so with no malice. Many (not all) Republicans (McConnell, Boehner, Cantor, Walsh, etc.) have said their number one goal (McConnell said day one) is to not return Mr. Obama to office. Their words and actions go hand in hand.
Regarding this immigration debate. It is interesting that Mr. Romney had said he would veto the Dream act and deport all illegals. Now, he won't say whether he would over ride Mr. Obama's executive order. Which is more political?

Which is more Political? The Executive Order which has teeth and that can affect an election.

Steiner, don't think this decision by the President will have much impact one way or the other. How Mr. Romney handles it will have more impact. He was against the Dream act, but he and Rubio were working to put a bill out that would buy some votes. Sheldon Adelson is really the one influencing the election. $100 million to try to buy the election for the Republicans. Talk about not playing fair! Whatever Mr. Obama does, pales in comparison to the Republican Fat Cat Money flooding into this election without anyway to track the truth of the ads or who is contributing. Even McCain says its bad.

My direct answers to your comments:

RB: Steiner, don't think this decision by the President will have much impact one way or the other.

Steinar Andersen: What are you basing that opinion on? Over 800,000 illegal migrants are affected (and ultimately, the families that will use those newly "allowed" people as a way to stay here without prosecution. The Executive order immediately impacts "ice" and the "Department of Homeleand Security".

RB: How Mr. Romney handles it will have more impact. He was against the Dream act, but he and Rubio were working to put a bill out that would buy some votes.

Steinar Andersen: And just how is that (that Romney has more impact)? Is he presently in any political office that can affect policy or regulation? Or have you already come to the conclusion that Romney will win the election?

RB: Sheldon Adelson is really the one influencing the election. $100 million to try to buy the election for the Republicans. Talk about not playing fair!

Steinar Andersen: It takes more than money to win elections (one only has to see the last election in Arizona in the race for Senator Kyl's seat to see that money isn't everything). The Democratic Party also has super pacs and financial benafactors. Nobody is "clean" regarding the obscene use of money regarding many political races.

RB: Whatever Mr. Obama does, pales in comparison to the Republican Fat Cat Money flooding into this election without anyway to track the truth of the ads or who is contributing. Even McCain says its bad.

Steinar Andersen: Most ads do not tell the truth, they tell a "message". And that is the case on both sides. Regarding what President Obama does... he is a poor poster child for having the moral high ground. In the 2008 election, any money donated from $250 and below were not identified (transperancy????? ummmmm, nope). Obama is no different than Romney in the spending department.

"Never in American history has the nation been saddled with such an unethical and ideologically rigid administration, whose ultimate goal is to tear apart the fabric of society and to recast the United States into the socialist model originally formulated in Italy of the 1920s and '30s." Steve McCann

Read more:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/civility_and_the_legacy_of_george_w_bush.html#ixzz1y9K4PFBA

Anybody But Obama 2012

NOT a chance!

<<Thumbs up>>

Let me clarify since it seems to be causing some disconcernment from others, the <Thumbs up> was for Steve Mottel's original comment "Romney 2012".

Raymond, demonizing a person without knowing them is the very essence of intolerance. many people's opinions are exactly that, opinions. Why label others when not knowing their full circumstance? "Overfed racists"? Isn't that a bit over the top?

But "Steinar" gives thumbs up to the irrational hyperbole of the gasbag Schulte. Yeah, you're quite the voice of reason there, "Steinar". Uh huh.

Sandra, "Steinar" is actually my name. The thumbs up was to a simple comment. Steve Mottel @ 7:47 am on Monday, June 18, 2012 stated: "Romney 2012".

I gave him a <Thumbs Up>. I fail to see how my 2 words could be so misinterpreted. As for being the voice of reason, I would prefer to think of my contributions to be sensible contributions to dialouge, but judge me if you must.

As for Mr. Schulte, I find he is at least contributing specifics on occasion and is trying to raise the level of information regarding discourse... and is trying to engage. I am sure he and I will not see eye to eye on some issues, but I see where he is coming from.

So people who actually listen to and read commentary from various sources can't think for themselves? An interesting take on things. Perhaps that is why there is such a schism in this country-we have people who take the time to thoughtfully study issues and then we have the emotional ones who can't be bothered to take the time to read, listen and actually think.

Is it Prusak or Schulte who responds emotionally? That should be an easy question to answer based upon Mr. Prusak's comments.

Mr. Prusak, "name-calling" is not an argument. "Name-calling" is what little children do. People who "name-call" have lost the argument.

As a rule-of-thumb, it seems that Democrats can't argue their points very well and have to resort to "name-calling". Oh, and one more thing, I don't own a Lexus, a Benz or a BMW. And I was too young to serve in the military in Viet Nam.

I can hardly wait to see the look on your face when the Supreme Court overturns Obamacare followed by a Republican landslide in the 2012 election. We already see General Sims' response to Governor Walker's victory in the Wisconsin recall election-it ain't pretty.

To many of the "Reply" comments to Ray Prusak. I don't think all the name calling works for anyone. Though there are tons of independant "facts" that imply one thing or another, the real mark of human society is drawing on the facts to explain or anticipate events around us. As adults it would be nice to see factual information used to make a "mild" point, and not as flame throwers and name calling.

I think you may want to check your facts;
"spending more than all previous Presidents combined". What is the source of this claim?
Keep in mind the Congress controls the purse strings which include Dems and Reps. There is simple arithmetic behind the 9 trillion deficits when Obama took office, continued obligations such as social security and military, and a financial meltdown months before Obama took office, and hence a further increase in our deficit. Believing a president can reverse the above by simply implementing a few “bumper sticker” solutions isn’t real. That goes for immigration issues as well, read up on the “Braceros Program” from 1942 – 1964 to understand our immigration issue on the south border.

Well said.

Agreed 100%. Some of the responses are more like kids on a school ground.

Scott Walker? Oh, the guy that took all that out of State money to buy a recall election in Wisconsin? He makes my skin crawl too. Mostly, it's Willard and Sheldon Adelson that get me going. Halliburton, Cheney and Bush 43 are old hat and have done all the damage they can. I could care less what they have to say or did. We can just do our best to clean up the mess.
Did you see where Willard won't even say if he would override the Obama executive order? He has to poll it before he can speak it. Flip Flop!

RB:

Scott Walker had a lot of help from the Democratic Party (who did not throw any money of note at the elction nor their candidate). Also, Obama already gave the executive order. Romney is in no position yet to act on the executive order (so why shouldn't he be prudent and not reply foolishly to get caught in a gotcha moment?) As for any mess, it is undisputed that our Federal Debt is up by 5 trillion dollars since the President went into office. Is that not, a budgetary mess? Or do only Republicans make mistakes (in your opinion)?

Miss Bunny, hang in there. Help is on the way-the Obama Depression ends on election day 2012. Just a few more months to go . . . . .

Better days for you and for America will be here soon.

Another well reasoned response. . . . calling me a racist has no impact whatsoever on me-it only makes you look foolish. Simply because someone does not agree with you, you call them a racist. It looks like the Democrats are out of arrows and all they got left is to throw stones.

Governor Walker-thumbs up.

Raymond. Please present your clinical definition of a racist. Also, what is your CV (in which you judge others in such demonizing terms, surely your have a background that supports your ability to determine who is tolerant / intolerant / uneducated/ and a racist).

So are you saying shooting two people is justified becasuse they are suspected "gang members", stealing beer, or for fear of life? Pick your posion wisely, for example, the slippery slope opens the door to shoot someone because they are "suspected" as any of the above. A few years back in sleepy Grayslake Illinois there was an incident where teens took beer stored in a garage by a local restaurant owner. Would you have shot them for fear of your life?

My bad, I posted this in the wrong article, gotta stop posting from GoGo in flight...

But yes, I would have no issue if they were in my attached garage and maybe headed to my young daughter's room.

Robert, each situation is different. Your premise is flawed when taken into comparison to the Chandler situation (as that situation did not happen in Grayslake).

Big Business is complicit in this (and those who hire illegal migrants should be held to account... regardless of their political party support).

All that is true, but this isn't about immigration.

It's about the transparent attempt to buy votes by pandering to the perceived desires of one racial group, the erosion of the rule of law, the blatant disregard for the separation of powers, and the startling emergence of an authoritarian movement in this country as seen in these comments - that should send chills down the spine of anyone who knows anything about history and knows where this leads.

"Never in American history has the nation been saddled with such an unethical and ideologically rigid administration, whose ultimate goal is to tear apart the fabric of society and to recast the United States into the socialist model originally formulated in Italy of the 1920s and '30s." Steve McCann

Read more:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/civility_and_the_legacy_of_george_w_bush.html#ixzz1y9K4PFBA

Actually Gary this thread is about immigration. See the article provided by the Patch that spawned the comments here.

Jim, I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner. All it means is that I've been extremely effective. It puts the Democrats in a very bad light, but we already knew that they were thugs.

President Obama is not governing, he is agitating. That is what community activists do.

He is pitting race against race, women against men, poor against rich, and secular against religion. Demonize, divide, and conquer. Alinsky 101.

I disagree with this policy. Let all the world see the tactics of each side so we know who we are dealing with. The worst that can happen is that someone gets offended. The best outcome is that we all learn the true nature of our neighbors.... which could be pretty useful.

Ah Gary, I'm not surprised that you would disagree with the terms and conditions of the "Patch". However, the "Patch" has given us a license to use the site as they wish. Moreover, I don't know the political views of the person that entered the fake comment, and as such any comment is non-productive.

Jennifer... "Good Form". Such illicit comments using other's names in an effort to cause harm should be deleted.

"... a black, intelligent constituional scholar, a product of the best education available ..."

Sadly, Raymond is right. Barack Obama is the product of the best education available in this country. He is what passes as a Constitutional scholar in today's "educated circles".

What a tragedy.

Ah Gary, Is'm not sure of your educational background and in full disclosure please do so. What are your qualifications and reasoning for implying that President Obama ' is what passes as a Constitutional scholar in today's "educated circles". ' ?

Please note, that your generalizations (when others apply them to you) are dismissed out of hand by you. Do you not agree we should do the same when such opinions are made of us by you?

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

Raymond Prusak: "president eisenhower would not be allowed in today's gop. ronald reagan could not get endorsed by the tea party. he could never be nominated in this party anymore. jeb bush accused most of you as not being aware of reality. you are the party of palin of limbaugh of cheney and roe. you have believed the big lie mr. schulte. they tell you he's a muslim long enough or a socialist or whatever else the haters put on bumper stickers."

It doesn't appear that Mr. Prusak has a clue as to what the TEA party is about. I've been on your side of the fence (the liberal side of the fence), until I figured out what it was all about-mostly fund-raising to line somebody's pocket. The left today is mostly emotion and very little thought. You can obviously tell that is the case by Mr. Prusak's posts.

Ah McClound, and the worst recession/depression since the 1930's. Unless the general financial collapse circa September 2008 during Mr. Bushs' administration was just a dream. Touche' ? See the noted CNN interview below.

http://youtu.be/ZFSOWiFt4UY

Stunning comment. 5 Trillion in the past 3 years? That is cleaning up deficits?

Yes-Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator. The US military deposed Saddam Hussein and replaced him with a democratic government. Only someone who doesn't believe in democratic government would question whether or not the Iraq War was worth it. (The people who live in Iraq are human beings too-at least that's what conservatives believe.)

Just how was the Iraq War any different from the US involvement in WW I, WW II, the Korean War or the Viet Nam War? The only difference that I can see is the Iraq War was prosecuted by a Republican President, while the other four wars were prosecuted by Democrat Presidents. I assume that you think that wars prosecuted by a Democrat Administration are "good wars", while any war prosecuted by a Republican Administration is a "bad war".

Both should have a place regarding public discourse and the education of our children.

^^^ This is why I want these kinds of posts left online. Raymond is a window into the mind of a liberal, and I don't want anyone to close the blinds.

Most of you think this is mucking up the thread. I assure you he is representing his side with perfect clarity. Soak this up... get yourself to believe this is what the "educated circles" are teaching our children... and then you will begin to understand what we are up against.

Gary, the posts which were deleted from the thread were lewd posts attributed to me, but not made by me. Someone was using my name to post lewd comments in an attempt to embarrass me.

I agree that Mr. Prusak's posts are classics which clearly show the level of thought by the left.

Ah Gary, "Raymond is a window into the mind of a liberal, and I don't want anyone to close the blinds" is a stero-type and not a view point that is well reasoned, marshalling facts to a resonable conclusion. You are sinking into personal attack, and our country needs solutions. This thread began with immigration followed by sweeping claims about "who did what" and "who is to blame" for what. What is your view-point?

Robert, by insinuating that I have stooped to the level of personal insults by stereo-typing a person who himself stooped to the level of personal insults by stereo-typing others, you have now stereo-typed me as a stereo-typer, and thus, have proven to be a stereo-typer yourself and have stooped to the same low level of personal insults for which you have accused me.

I demand satisfaction sir! (... said while removing the white glove and slapping Sir Robert across the face...)

What do I think? I already made it pretty clear what I think. If we are going to make important national policy like immigration reform, then it should be done through Congress where the voices of our representatives can be a part of the decision... and shouldn't be done through Royal Decree from the Oval Office.

What would I do if I were King, like Obama thinks he is? I would stop illegal immigration at the border first. Everything else is nonsense until that is done. For 5 years I would look the other way and let the illegals stay here as long as they obeyed the rest of our laws. After all, we let them in, so we bear some of the burden for the solution. After 5 years, if illegal immigration had been largely stopped, then I would START the process of naturalizing the illegals still left. They would go to the back of the line, and it might still be many, many years before they became citizens.

I hate the present situation where we have second class citizens. We need to fix it.

McClound, can't wait for what? Some basic econ 101:

1) product & services + consumers (spenders) = economic progress.

Check history and you'll see that during a major recession/depression consumers don't spend, i.e. buy houses, new cars, electronics, etc. What is the private sector waiting for?... times up, consumers flushed with ready cash to spend. What do consumers have?.. times up, marginal resources and low confidence that the money fairy will appear in November. Get it? A reasoned comment is appreciated.

robert myers: "Check history and you'll see that during a major recession/depression consumers don't spend, i.e. buy houses, new cars, electronics, etc. What is the private sector waiting for?..."

The private sector is waiting for President Obama to be removed from office by the voters. President Obama does not inspire any confidence in the future. There is really not much difference between President Obama and Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez. You see what Castro and Chavez did for the economy of their countries.

Raymond Prusak: "private sector is way up, check your portfolio schulte,or did you sell and buy guns before obama takes them away in his second term? it's the public layoffs that led to the intrangisence in employment because your party wants failure for our country so you can get the muslim boogeyman that scares you out no matter the costs."

What portfolio Mr. Prusak? I work in the building construction industry. The building construction industry has been destroyed. The union halls are full of construction workers waiting for work.

I have yet to see anyone insult you regarding your atheism. Why do you insist on using one's God as a comedy foil?

Raymond. BOTH parties drove this country off a cliff (that and the results of the 9/11 attacks that resulted in a backlash of over protection, and harmed economy, and the onset of war).

The argument for both is compelling. You just have to be willing to listen to the argument and then make a choice as to wther you agree with it.

The Democrats voted for the same war (after seeing the same intelligence briefings). Blanket comments and generalizations do not make a believable argument when not supported by the facts.

Raymond Prusak: "wmd's was the rationale and it was another big gop lie."

Interestingly, President Clinton told us that Iraq had WMD when he was president. I guess that means that you think that President Clinton lied to the American people. I thought that President Clinton was a Democrat.

Heather, I look forward to people with such feelings being a person of their word (and volunteering to work in the hospitals where the illegal migrant gets free services) and by providing support with any surplus income those masses flowing over our borders by taking such surplus and adding them to their tax return. What about our children and their lack of ability to go for summer jobs and find employment at the bottom rung to work their way up to better jobs? Should we open the border to all children from all countries? Are you willing to pay for that effort? Will you house those children? Or are you imposing your will and beliefs upon others?

Raymond, "satiric blend of political and cultural comedy" being thrown out as opinion is what happened.

Raymond Prusak: "i would like to apologize to all those here. i realize that my satiric blend of political and cultural comedy has gotten off track. . . . what happened?"

Mr. Prusak, apology not accepted. One does not say what you said and then simply apologize and sweep it all under the rug. You had your say and your comments deserve a response.

Sorry, but America is at a fork in the road. We can either go down the road of European socialism or we can turn back toward the America prior to the New Deal. We see what's happening in Europe today-European sociailism is a failure. Given what we see happening in Europe, why would be want to follow in Europes's footsteps?

I deal in facts. If you take my comments as such, it is your own cross to bear. I am not holier than thou. I am allowed an opinion also. As I am a legal immigrant and became a naturalized citizen via the rule of law, I have a decidedly strong opinion on this issue. I don't judge, I comment and let my comments stand on their own (and I use the English language as it was intended to be used, to articulate exactly where I am coming from). I can support my comments (with facts from specific sources and my own personal experiences. As for reading what I post, I am proud of and stand by every word I post. Much thought goes into those posts. I engage in dialouge, not diatribes. I acknowledge when my "side is wrong or is flawed. And I also engage others directly. If that makes you uncomfortable, may I recommend you take your comedy (your words, not mine) act to Zanies and find your target audience. Talking AT people serves no purpose (except for self gratification). ~nuff said

I am not trying to attract women (and I am happily married, thank you very much). And my sense of humor es extensive (a huge fan of many things humorous). Illegal immigration is not one of those things I find humorous........

RB: hey, if liberals care about children suffering: call me a liberal. i don't mind and i'm ok with the fact that i can feel empathy as a christian should (or at least that was what it's founder based it on?) and still be an atheist. wow. that must upset every god fearing conservative out there.

SA: please donate any free time you have to their cause by volunteering at hospitals where they get free care, and please donate any extra money you have to their continued presence here in the states. But please, do not speak for all of us or try to use my tax money (plus forcing my medical premiums to become more excessive that presently helps cover the medical costs for those illegally here). If you want to stand up for them, do so using your pocketbook and time, not mine.

RP: steinar, my 17 year old has a summer job as a busboy of all things and he's a caucasian. imagine that, he snagged it in spite of those sickly immigrants south of the border clogging up our employment lines and er's.

SA: Congratulations, your 17 year old is amongst the lucky few.

RP: read the ny times today. it chronicles the plight of a 11 year old who spent his entire life in houston, and is an american culturally and is suddenly the new kid in the barrio in central mexico.

SA: Here is the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/19/world/americas/american-born-children-struggle-to-adjust-in-mexico.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

First, Mexico should have a program to re-absorbe their returning citizens (especially the children). Second, do the parents have any blame in any part of this? Third, they were born in the US yes, but in this case... the mother sent the child to Mexico after his father (who was here illegally for 25 years) six months after he was deported. The mother made the decision, not the Government. You see, the facts tell a different story. <continued>

RP: I will be more than happy to blow your comments here out of the water with a deluge of facts and examples of my experience traversing the immigration path. Can you?

I didn't accuse a fellow blogger of anything. I responded in detail to what was written in my direction. Your comments have not been benign, and I have been courteous enough to respond to each of your comments with a response. If you want proof provided to each, I will be happy to do so. Based on your interactions with myself and others, I daresay I hold minimal hope you will aknowledge any facts presented (as you have yet to dispute me with any Intellectual Honest effort to respond to my direct / detailed responses to you other than with more blatherings that contribute nothing substantively).

RP: You are making a very large assumption regarding my religious beliefs considering I have not stated what mine are. I also don't hate you, I feel sorry for your tunnel vision (and your lack of allowing yourself the open mindedness of discussing respectfully issues you may or may not believe in). Your making fun of others only waters down any effort you actually try to make regarding a sensible point.

Raymond Prusak: "the world was flat for people like you. whales and their oil were endless, you have no capacity for ideas other than profit. you know the zealots in your party are wrong about evolution, yet you pander to them for their vote. you ask for facts, and like steinar, you believe in a higher power based in no factual data except for superstition. i make fun of guys like you, but you hate guys like me. what are you so afraid of?"

In fact, we have enough oil and gas in North America to last for hundreds of years. The United States is the Saudi Arabia of natural gas. (Man-made global warming (climate change) is a hoax.)

We don't "hate" guys like you. If fact, we think you're amusing. I haven't bothered responding in detail to your posts simply because I am enjoying your posts too much. You're removing the mask and letting everyone know what the left actually thinks.

Your name-calling doesn't bother me in the least-so go right ahead and call me a racist. That taunt is worn out.

@ Heather: I am not discounting any volunteerism you are presently involved in. I am merely suggesting that you redirect your efforts directly to the children of illegal immigrants given how you have articulated your concern.

With regard to summer jobs (and any lower level job all year round), it is more difficult for our youth to gain access if those jobs are being filled by adults who are under employed and by migrants who are willing to work for less. its a sheer numbers issue at this point. I know MANY people hunting for a job (any job). Creating one's own job is also not as easy as saying it. In Illinois, the cost of doing business went up by 66% regarding the tax rate (regarding ancillary costs of doing business).... <continued>

Steinar,

In the 1800's the problems of security existed, also, immigration policy evolved in the US over several decades and to address a myriad of issues pre/post industrialization and world conflicts.

The extreme violence on the southern border is in large part the spill-over effect from acute internal issues in Mexico, i.e. drug trafficking and more. Attempting to say this illegality is overcome by us “enforcing” our immigration laws ignores the nature of the illegality; criminal gangs are not deterred by laws.

I await your response to this and other post.

@Robert Myers:

I never said that illegality in Mexico would be overcome by the US enforcing its immigration laws. but, one has to start somewhere and at least give both civilians (the population that gets to live with the result) and law enforcement a chance to stem the tide. I am waiting to see now if you have any sensible solution to articulate to us exactly how we can keep the chaos from spreading (if not by a strong Immigration Policy and enforcement).

This has nothing to do with "my discomfort". Your very comment is stunning in the extreme. You have no clue about my parents or my family or my background, yet you whip out such absurdities at the drop of a dime (which is no different than performing verbal darts at a dart board). Again you have no provided any constructive response which disputes anything I have said.

@ yanjanani kadyakale: It isn't a matter of if Americans are scared. There are only so many jobs to go around. How many Americans are going to other countries illegally and taking jobs elsewhere. It is a matter of the violating the sovereignity of a country and it's citizens.

Yanjanani,

Your view is appreciated in a thread that at times is way to personal.

Steinar,

Illegal immigration is visited by all developed countries, why? Simple, if you and I were in a third world country we would likely see the advantage of entering the US. Lets be honest, immigrants are people with families and aspirations just like us here in the US.

@ Robert Meyers: It is great that so many aspire to be here and that they like us, but without any means to stem the tide....... the US will no longer be the US that you and I love and that will happen sooner than many think......

If your a white male and can't find a job, or find another field to make your way, you may be the product of millions of white folks who after the second world war attained a middle class life without skills. Now employers WILL hire others at half the cost. It is not soley the fault of immigrants.

Yours Truly,
A White Guy

The president didn't mention any particular race, if your are white and here ilegally come forward and begin assimilation.

@ Robert Meyers: "Millions of white folks..... attained a middle class life without skills". That sir, is the King of Generalizations........

Mr. Prusak, you are quite a perceptive guy-you know us like the back of your hand. Based upon your comments, I'd say you are a typical Democrat bigot.

Jim, I am very aware of that video. it is very detailed regarding the numbers.... but the idealogical arguments by the other side do not recognize facts.... just their feelings.

That video presents a lot of good information but he left some things out, like illegal immigration, the consequences of taking so many immigrants from one country, and the fact that the welfare state was put in place right around 1965 as well.

"You cannot simultaneously have free immigration and a welfare state."
-- Milton Friedman

He draws some sweeping conclusions that aren't necessarily supported by the data he presented. His suggestion that we get mad at politicians and not immigrants is spot on though.

Steinar, I think you interpretation of video as a response to the “other side” is possibly misplaced. On the surface the video instinctively arouses xenophobia, not surprising with a conversation about immigration.

I believe Mr. Becks' thesis goes somewhat like this; advanced (rich) countries become "older" and birth rates decline and the unskilled labor force needs replenishing (emphasis on unskilled). In response, governments loosen up immigration, allowing a fraction of persons from third world (poor) countries to seek work in rich countries. Mr. Beck wisely omitted another player who is interested in cheap unskilled labor; US employers, and their role in government policy.

My analysis of how the video is applied in this thread; some in this thread (presumably conservatives) are hitching their wagon to the video in part driven by xenophobia, and in part from the social cost of illegal immigration. Mr. Beck alludes to the cost, but throughout the video he acknowledges the forces of poverty in the third world. Unless others viewing the video offer their analysis of Mr. Beck's thesis, to aid the discussion, the video degrades to a “flame thrower” to undermine someone’s equally vague point of view. Solutions are found through rational analysis and not instinctive responses to facts alone. What are your thoughts?

Much of the problem regarding the immigration debate (and other issues as well in this world) is the over analyzing being done by each side (and the lack of a bi-partisan conclusion taking into account the complete picture). Much of what transpires in this world is talking point barrages (with unsubstantiated opinion flung about/presented as data / facts). Mr. Beck’s video starts the discussion / debate. One has to take “feeling” out of the discussion to discuss the argument’s merits. His video (of which when all of his video’s are taken in context) at least speaks to the issue in such a way (visually) that one then has to start ratcheting down the details to present an overall opinion..

@ Robert Meyers: I don't find Mr. Beck's conclusions to be the end all / be all regarding the big picture. It is a visual start to a much larger discussion. Actually, the video arouses nothing but interest in the actual numbers (to the Intellectually Honest). Interpretation of those numbers (taking into account the mentioned multiple variables)… speak to a situation which is unsustainable.

Mr. Beck does speak to US employers and employment playing a role (regarding a “Tightening” labor market). Anything else on his part would be supposition. <continued>

Gary,

Mr. Beck's conclusions are part of his general thesis; geo-political events and an aging population play a significant role in our immigration policy. It is "sweeping" but he isn't attempting to answer every question, he is setting the table for dicussion. Try not to disagree with every detail from your perspective, see the big picture he is outlining.

Steinar,

About the over analysis. There is over analysis, but of only a few select facts by all parties. The largest missing piece to most of the discussion here is history; we didn't get to this point solely because some immigrants are breaking the "law". The situation arises from decades of permitting the flow of cheap labor for hard physical work. Now that unskilled jobs are scarce, in the face of extreme economic change, societies tend to find a quick explanation; i.e. illegal immigration.

Americans would be better served by taking a deep breath and recognizing we are in transition, and squabbling that long-term systemic problems are solved by one sentence solutions is sad. … and the first casualty of the truth is history.

Robert, what a beautiful way of telling us that we're too stupid to understand the issue. You are a true artist.

But what you're really saying is that none of knows what the laws are until we get into court to find out what that day's version of "justice and fairness" is. The written law is a mere suggestion, and not to be taken too seriously because some judge with a deeper understanding of the subtleties of social justice will grace us with his wisdom and hand down his interpretation of the law to the benefit of the greater good. If only we could see the bigger picture, then we would see the fairness in it.

Of course a society built on the arbitrary interpretation of the law will have negative consequences that are all too easy for laymen to understand. For example, if you don't enforce the laws controlling legal immigration and you let millions of people cross your borders in direct violation of the written law, then you will end up with a large population of second class citizens who live outside the protection of the written law, and therefore live in fear of the day the arbitrary interpretation of the law turns on them and sends them home against their will.

It is irresponsible to let this happen.

I prefer a country where the written law is the law of the land. It's easier to plan for the future, and somehow seams much fairer than your system.

SA: You lost me when you seem to have indicated that the Executive Order (bypassing the Congress) was justified because the issues as it pertains to situations such as Mr. Vargas’ needed to be dealt with. In my mind, there is no justifying the bypassing of congress. The amendment process is there for a reason (and all deliberation should be done then, not in the court of public opinion and election politics). The purpose of Executive Orders is to help officers and agencies of the executive branch manage the operations within the federal government itself. Mr Obama used this (particularly right before the elction) to make laws without Congressional approval, and of moving the existing immigration laws away from their original mandates.

RM: The rule of law is not like one stop fast food shopping, it is a product of civil discussion and honest consideration of another’s points of view. Take time to consider my various posts here by disarming yourself from your hardened point of view.

SA: The rule of law is the result of civil discussion in Congress and honest consideration (or in some cases, deliberate compromise in order to make gains elsewhere). Both Truman and Clinton had a Executive Order overturned. And may I also disagree that my point of view is hardened. I am willing to discuss such issues and I take into account reasoned arguments on their merits. I have been known to adjust my stand on issues (and I do not know that many people who do).

RM: That is a very short summary, however, our constitution set up the rule of law and our legal history is well established. Congress makes law, the executive carries out the laws policy, and federal courts adjudicate differences brought to it by a plaintiff.

SA: Agreed.

RM: Shock over an executive order about immigration, in particular how it concerns Mr. Vargas, ignores the deliberation needed to fulfill the purpose of, the rule of law, and the historical complexity of immigration from the south (see my post on the “Braceros Program” above).

@ Robert Meyers:

RM: The rule of law is not black and white as appears to be implied in your letter, and by other comments in this thread. It is a matter of judgment that seeks justice and fairness based in the totality of the circumstances, under current law.

SA: The rule of law is black and white (it is after all, on paper). It is the interpretation (flawed or otherwise) and unbalanced enforcement of such laws by two of the three branches of government that has us in our present predicament. We can have a debate all day about how the law was written and the intent, however… we are not the ones interpreting or enforcing them. We are the ones trying to make heads or tails out of the chaos that has ensued. I am also aware of the laws that are on the books, as I had to traverse that process. I was interviewed by an INS attorney as to my knowledge of the government, I was tested as to my English language ability, and I had to jump through many hoops in order to be able to stand up in San Diego, CA, raise my hand, and become a citizen in 1983.

Gary, it doesn't serve anyone well by calling others "stupid". Robert is clearly not stupid. He has an opinion and is stretching the boundries of this discussing in a meaningful way. It also serves as an abject lesson in how to discuss such issues with civility and respect. How about we all try to do so and maybe in our small "patch" of the interweb, that maybe we can put something concrete together and present it to the powers that be (who are too partisan to have any meaningful discussion at this point).

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

I was accusing him of calling US "stupid", and giving him ample credit for having done so without actually saying it.

Regarding the powers that be... the only power I have is the ability to change others' minds. That is a glacial process, and only when it has advanced far enough will the powers listen to the growing consensus. Power only responds to power, and consensus IS power in politics.

Gary, I mis-read your comment and I stand... corrected. :-)

I, on the other hand, reject all apocalyptic environmental claims as sensational money grabs based on a lifetime of seeing these scares come and go.

That apparently makes me a simple person. 8)

Simply said. <thumbs up> :)

Mr. Anderson, since we stumbled into the issue of "man-made global warming", I'm curious what you make of "global cooling" which was being predicted by the United States government in the mid-1970's. Two articles on "global cooling" appeared in Time and Newsweek magazines in the mid-1970's:

Time-June 24, 1974: "Another Ice Age?"
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914,00.html

Newsweek-April 28, 1975 : "The Cooling World"
http://denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm

"To scientists, these seemingly disparate incidents represent the advance signs of fundamental changes in the world’s weather. The central fact is that after three quarters of a century of extraordinarily mild conditions, the earth’s climate seems to be cooling down." (Newsweek, April 28, 1975)

The New York Times has been addressing the issue of "global cooling" and "global warming" since the 1850's. It seems the discussion alternate between cooling and warming at 30 year intervals. NYT articles that address the issue can be found on the internet.

If the NOAA was predicting "global cooling" in the mid-1970's and is now predicting "global warming", how can we believe anything that the NOAA says? It would seem that the NOAA has no clue as to what is happening to the Earth's climate.

If "global warming" or "global cooling" is indeed happening, it is my opinion that the cause of the warming or cooling is the Sun.

As a matter of fact.... I find the climate alarmists of the late 20th / early 21st century to be almost as bad as the scientists / politicians of the late 19th / early 20th century regarding Eugenics..........

And any student of history would know of what I mean (a lot of money was spent, many people harmed, and wars fought). In the end, there was and is no "perfect" race... and yet those same politicians and scientists want to again destroy by forcing their beliefs down our collective throats (so we waste money on the Kyoto Treaty while millions go without a means to combat malaria because of the DDT misinformation campaign... and millions slide into poverty or reman in poverty due to the loss of jobs.... the Keystone Pipeline and Clean Coal plants being a couple of examples).

@ "Raymond Prusak": I've only been posting here for 2 days. Your loutish comments directed at me personally are not only represhensible, but expose you for who and what you are. My wife and I are known in Huntley, and if anyone knows you... you can be sure that they will tell you to your face that you don't have a chance. Another thing, your comments certainly give Liberals a bad name (as I know many upstanding liberals who might have a differing view, but don't treat others like dirt).

Interesting how the Ivy league is allegedly educating people nowadays.........

That would be..... no.

Words matter, Mr. Prusak. In every interaction with others on websites such as these, you can be sure that I will never invoke your wife (or Husband... I don't Judge), family, business, or education. And I feel fine and do not need a sauna (the heat of the outdoors is enough). As for "harmless nonsense", all interactions between strangers online never is truly harmless (as one never knows who might be a Bundy or worse who has an itchy psychotic personality). That is why I am not flippant with others on websites such as this........ if I want to expose my humorous side, I go to websites where I can do so where it is expected........

You are making an Assumption that I read children's tales as an adult and ski during the winter. Generalizations..... its what's for dinner.........

~see? subtle humor always wins.......

I look forward to your first meaningful and well constructed sentence.

See? And done without any malice (amusement for everyone). Hope you enjoyed that.........

Ahhhhh........... <lightbulb>

Well I must be a bit more educated than you seeing as I have never been disciplined . I wouldn't be so proud if I were in your shoes. My cave? I happen to like my cave with 6 bedrooms and over 6000 sq, feet of cave! And why does it bother you so much that you don't know my name? It really has nothing to do with anything, yet it bothers you so much. If you spent half the time and energy on getting your business squared maybe you would be at work as opposed to spewing your diatribes here!

I am stunned..........

Gwen, the CAPS brigade is on both sides.........

~just sayin.

Yes, once the political structure crumbles because nobody recognizes boundries or the rule of law.... we'll have chaos. Utopia is in many people's dreams and aspirations... but the population is growing..... and resources are getting more scarce. And the progressives who would stifle growth have no solutions to fill in the gaps. And this future is rushing at us fast......

I suspect you only read what you wanted to read (as a few, including myself) have given compelling answers / comments to the present immigration situation.

Steinar...Actually I read every comment above. I read all of yours. I do commend you on your attempts to keep this thread civil and you have also attempted to keep the conversation on point and moving forward....rather than displaying petty knee jerk criticisms. While I do not share your points of view in general...I do appreciate your manner of communication. It is only through civil conversation and a show of respect for others that anything of value will come.
Utopia (by anyone's conception) will never be achieved. Utopias are 'achieved' states not dynamic states. We are, by nature, dynamic creatures. I know that populations are on the rise...and resources will become scarce. Chaos will surely ensue. We are not outside of human history. Civilizations as advanced as ours for their time no longer exist. Their laws...their borders...their economics are no longer evident. This is a larger tide that no progressive nor conservative will be able to stem. The "compelling answers and comments" regarding this issue that have been made are still being made within the box. The tools that have been used in attempt of correction have not been tools of overall value...for had they been, historically, we would not be discussing this issue at all. We need to update the tool box if we seek temporary...and yes...they will be temporary solutions.

McCloud...Misery in the private sector is being experienced by a history of failed economic policies...dating back to the original economic policy. We do not live in the vacuum of current policies. One faulty policy has led to the next. Blame can not be singularly ascribed to the current administration...unless one seeks a convenient scapegoat as a excuse. Economic policies evolve...like everything else. We don't need to look elsewhere...we just need to look directly at it from the largest possible perspective.

The typical economic recession lasts less than 12 months. Why has this recession lasted more than 4 years? The answer to that seems obvious.

If the Obama Administration had done absolutely nothing to reduce the effects of the recession, then good times would have returned to America in very short order. The reason that the recession has dragged on so long and why so many Americans are suffereing is because of Administration policies such as the 2009 Stimulus and Obamacare.

Yes, it is true that the economy today is the effect of every decision made over the last centuries, but specific decisions made by this Administration have caused the extended recession-a depression.

Socialism destroys every thing that it touches. President Obama is a socialist and his Administration is in the process of destroying the US economy. President Obama is really no different than Fidel Castro or Hug Chavez. If President Obama is re-elected, you can expect the recession to continue and get worse.

In order for Obama to bring socialism to America, he must first destroy capitalism.

Canada has left the recession behind simply by implementing economic policies advocated by conservatives. Like Canada, the US has energy resources which can be developed that would make every American wealthy, but the Obama Administration is doing its best to spike the development of energy resources in the US.

McC... My sentence above..." Blame can not be singularly ascribed to the current administration...unless one seeks a convenient scapegoat as an excuse" is my only reasonable response to your question. The current administration is carrying the burdens of all previous administrations failings. The current administration will inevitably pass along its failings as a burden to the next...and so on and so on and so on. The record unemployment...record foreclosures...record debt was not created out of thin air by this administration...but the accumulation of ongoing failures by every previous administration. This is simply part of the continuum.
You accused me earlier today of seeking an excuse (technology). May I suggest that it appears you may be seeking an excuse by attempting to pin all the problems we face on the group currently in power...when it was, in fact, generations of ill conceived plans and structures. Humans are faulty creatures...therefore they create faulty systems. You know..." garbage in garbage out".

McCloud... I do not take cover using the past. I read and study history. Patterns emerge. I do recognize the failings of this President...but I choose to view them within the historical context/ timeline. While I cannot personally recall all the campaign rhetoric in recent history...this I know for sure...not one candidate ran on a platform promise of increased fed. spending. Since 1960 we have had 9 Presidents...4 democrats and 5 republicans. During that period the national debt has doubled 5 times. George W. spent 19.1 trillion over 2 terms. Barack O. is projected to spend 14.4 trillion by the end of this term. Projections have him spending 30.4 trillion in two terms. Clearly he will be spending more. They have all spent more than their predecessors. He is falling right in line with historical data. Given that those running for President will say just about anything...any unrealistic thing to gain the office...and based on historical outcomes of said promises...I have zero belief or confidence that any one of them will be able to turn this ship around. They all promise...they all do not deliver. But this is the kicker...estimates have the national debt. at $9 quadrillion by the end of the 21st. century. This amazing feat will be accomplished by Presidents yet born. That is if this planet and its inhabitants survive to see that date. As for now...the time has come to face the new economic realities...and avoid wishful thinking/memories of the 1950's and balanced budgets.